On pages 234 and 235, John and Mustapha Mond are in the middle of a conversation about God. Mustapha Mond says he thinks there probably is a God, yet he still doesn't let his society know about one and that one only believes in what they are conditioned or raised to believe. John claims that it's natural to believe in God when you're alone or thinking of death.
Everyone has their own view about God, and no one has the right to try and change the mind of anyone. I personally believe in God, but is it only because I was raised that way? Some say that people start believing in God when something bad happens. There has been bad things in my life but not enough for me to change my views on things, or for instance: to start believing in something new.
Do people only believe in things only because they are raised to? Could you imagine how different people would be if they just made up their own minds about certain things in our world? Would your mind be different if your guardians didn't teach you what was right from wrong? Do you think that people would be able to figure out what was right from wrong without anyone to guide them?
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I have to agree with you. My parents parenting on me is a huge factor on who I am today, but mainly everyone should have some common sense to know what is right and what is wrong, you know? I truly and STRONGLY believe people would find out whats ethical and unethical even without the help of parents. Most of them, though, turn out bad--like some adopted or fostered children who are confused or never knew their biological parents. I grew up going to Mormon church, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and they put you in youth groups and all that stuff. Believe me, it's fun but if I had to choose I wouldn't be Mormon I'd officially go to my Kabbalah/Jewish views, but like you say, it's how you are raised. So, yes, we are all heavily influenced and No, we couldn't be ourselves without some of our environments influence. Some people may beg to differ but it's kind of hard to believe a rapist when he says he doesn't know any better. And it's even harder to believe a serial killer when he says he was never taught that killing people is wrong. Common sense.
ReplyDeleteBrittany, of course anyone can make their own choices in life. But, I feel that those around you play the biggest influences in your life. How you are raised, who you hang out with. These factors can potentially lead to a better and trouble-free life.
ReplyDeleteFaith and belief for some people play a HUGE part in their life... maybe too huge. Have you heard of the Cassie Bernall story. Sad, sad story. Here's something you might want to watch- it's powerful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vunoSDkT0CQ
In a nut-shell, Bernall was asked by a gunman if she believed in God. She said ,"Yes, I do." The man shot her and killed her. Her faith was so strong, that she put the value of her faith in God before the value of her own life. I believe in God (I am Catholic), but I don't know if I would have the guts to say yes. Do you think she was just born believing and following God? No, her family influenced her. She was in her church's youth and choir group. She was definitely shaped by those who loved her.
In the big picture, Brittany, parent's definitely play a BIG part in our lives. But, they aren't going to be standing next to us step by step, journey by journey. We have to make our own choices- use common sense and good morals. Bernall's parents were not standing with her before she was shot telling her to say yes or no. That was completely her own choice. Bernall's decision resulted in losing her life.
Growing up in a traditional Catholic family, it is only natural that my faith is the foundation of my life. Even though I am Catholic, just like you Brittany, I am not entirely for converting and evangelizing. I believe that a person cannot be forced into a religion or belief. The only way a person can truly believe is by his or her decision and not by the influence of others. I also believe that our parents and those around us have a great influence over our beliefs and decisions.
ReplyDeleteLike John, I believe that a person's faith is strongest during a time despair, such as death and loneliness. As the saying goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes". I know from personal experience that being in a tough situation can strengthen a person's faith.
Joey, I know we all can make our own decisions and our parents aren't going to be with us step by step. I wasn't saying that. I was asking if you think that the world would be different without parents, just like in Brave New World. Everyone would have had to make their own choices even more. As in no one would be taught what is right from wrong. I was asking if you think you'd be different and still have the same views on God. As in have your parents influenced your view on God and I was wondering if you'd have a different view on God if you didn't have your parents.
ReplyDeleteI find religion to be extremely arbitrary. If you were born in Iran, you'd be Muslim. If you were born in Kerala, India you'd probably be Hindu. The United States if primarily a Christian nation, so more than likely our parents are Christian and that does have a profound affect on us, but i don't think we need them to tell us what's right or wrong. I'm personally atheist but was raised as a Catholic. I went through all the rituals a normal Catholic child would go through, but something about the bible, i just couldn't believe it. If our parents didn't teach us about God and raise us in a certain religion we'd have just that, no religion. We'd have rational people who don't believe in any type of deity, and things would go on just fine. We don't need religion to tell us how to live a correct life.
ReplyDelete"Everyone would have had to make their own choices even more. As in no one would be taught what is right from wrong."
ReplyDeleteBut in Brave New World, doesn't the conditioning tell them what is right or wrong?
Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I was using Brave New World as an example, and I was asking about society today. I was wondering if you thought that our world would be any different if no one were to raise us or condition us to think certain things. If you had to learn right from wrong on your own. Would there be any religion? Because usually the way we get into believing in something is by our parents introducing it to us.
ReplyDeleteAn example of this came up in Oryx and Crake. Crake created a new race of humans, and he had given specific instructions to Snowman not to introduce religon to them, as it is too messy and only caused destruction/obscured judegment (ex: Crusades). I am still pondering that.
ReplyDeleteHowever, to answer your question, Brittany, i think religion is inevitable as long as knowledge is factual. For example, in Oryx and Crake, the new race of humans knew absolutely nothing; only how to survive. Snowman had to teach (make up stories) them everything. And they were each clean slate; so to say, believing everything without question (for they did not know how to question). Basically, their minds weren't as stressed and complicated as the avereage humans'. More close to an animals way of thinking, that is, using their mind for survival methods. But the thing that went wrong was that this new race enjoyed learning, which Crake feared...
From a personal standpoint, i was not raised in any religion. My dad's mom was Jewish and his father was Catholic. He did not endorse either, as they had created a huge conflict in his early life. So for a while i just roamed the Earth until i realized i was missing something. i thought hard and believed i was missing out on something important; and that's when i started to notice that i had never been to a church for a service. I am the eldest child and entered church by my own choice in the seventh grade. Now my brothers and my parents all go to the same church.
i have learned a lot from church, and i stand by Brittany when she says Everyone has their view about God. i do not agree with everything i am taught and question many aspects of my church,and i enjoy learning of other religions and inputting their ideologies into my habit of thinking. But i can do this confidently and confortably because i know He exists, and i know not to believe everything i see or hear. For who knows more than God?
As for Quangle, i don't think you should throw away religion entirely because you don't believe in what the bible says. Afterall, God is in charge, not the material world. To make another point: why do you think there are so many sects of religion; and in Christianity alone? Words and beliefs may change and twist, but God is always constant.
To finish Brittany's point, i still stand by knowledge when it comes to 'conditioning'. The race in Brave New World is not perfect or healthy like they'd wanted to think. And it is strange, for a baby is born (if the mother was healthy) without any chemicals, anything not already in its chemical makeup. However, in Brave New World, the young are tortured, drugged, brainwashed. They never had a chance to know what was REALLY right or wrong. Bernard is the exception, of course.
To contradict myself (joke) the Central London Hatchery And Conditioning Centre; the conditioning procedure itself, these are the parents now. it would be no different than now in the sense that these new parents are just introducing a new type of ethics. But instead of a mammalian parent who watches over and cares for their young, this new parent is reptilian. Cold and uncaring, releasing you into the world with only an instructions manual in your mind and no further guidance.
This is where the questions arise. What if we were raised on our own without guidance? Well, what we'd have to do is erect a leader, that's only natural. Whether it be human, godlike, or both (as in Egypt) is up to that culture. In Brave New World it is Ford. But without some task, without something to do other than graze on some hay, we are just like the other animals. And since we aren't animals, it means we do question, we do comprehend and learn, we do revolve around knowledge (and ignorance). The existence of Bernard proves these facts cannot be shaken; that these will always define us as human.
*(my comment was too long for one post)
ReplyDeleteI personally think that coming up with Right and Wrong is inevitable. One reason has to do with instinct; if you starve yourself, you're going to feel wrong. Therefore, it is right that you feel right when you eat. It has to do partly with how you feel. As for religion ever existing, i still think of Oryx and Crake. But they were not human; they were genetically modified directly by man, not God. So were the many races in Brave New World (Alpha, Epsilon...); they too were directly affected by man. It seems to me that Bernard serves as the slip; the mistake in Man's perfection. Because of Man's imperfection, the already perfect world was able to survive through Bernard, who did question religion. This is why i believe that if the mind/body be unhampered by Man's desire for control and perfection, religion is always there in our genetic code.
A question previously posted really caught my attention, "..you think that the world would be different without parents". Of course it would be. Everything that we know or value is built on the foundation of morals and beliefs taught to us by our parents. If not for the external influences in our lives how else would we know that Moms are supposed to be called Mom, Mama or Mommy and not "Quarters"? Everything that we know, or think that we know, is because we were taught or told that it should be so? Take for example, Michael Cera (an actor in the movie Scott Pilgrim vs the World) I admire him as an actor and think that he is very funny, hilarious in fact...but how do I know that? I don't know him personally. All I know is what I read about in him in celebrity gossip and what I see in the movies, yet someone else pointed out to me that he is just a guy reading the script. He is reflecting someone else's thoughts and ideas of someone else. I don't really know if Michael Cera is anything like the characters he plays. My belief that he's a cool dude is built on the publicity and PR (aka external influences).
ReplyDeleteTo go back to the original question that Brittany posted, "Do people only believe in things only because they are raised to?" YES, I believe we do. But because we are capable of learning and growing, our beliefs change as we experience life.
I can honestly say that although my Mom, to this day, tells me that Big Bird is real, I no longer believe that there is a giant talking yellow bird and know that he is just a character and costume.